L-L Cross Country Championships

Cedar Crest’s Ryan Wolfe (723), and a group of his teammates come down the final stretch to the finish line, during the Lancaster-Lebanon League Boys Cross Country Championships at Ephrata Middle school Tuesday October 15, 2019.

The Lancaster-Lebanon League boys and girls cross country season officially gets underway Thursday. It's the first of five league dates over four weeks, the others being Sept. 28, Oct. 1, Oct. 6 and Oct. 13. Meets will also look a bit different this year, which was previously written about here.

Below are the team-by-team preview capsules for L-L boys programs, listed by section, alphabetically. Of the top 30 finishers at last year's L-L championship meet, nineteen of them are back this year, in addition to McCaskey senior Stephen Schousen, who didn't compete at the league race but placed 12th in the District 3-3A race.

There are also three new head coaches. And Pequea Valley is bringing back its cross country program for the first time in 30 years. Though, as a new program, the Braves are on a two-year probationary period with the L-L until its league schedule will actually count towards their win-loss records.

SECTION ONE

Cedar Crest

Coach: Brandon Risser (16th season)

Last year’s record: 9-1 league (L-L Section One runner-up, L-L meet champion, District 3-3A champion, placed 10th at PIAA 3A meet)

Key returners: senior Tommy Bildheiser (placed second at L-L meet, placed 18th at District 3-3A meet, placed 31st at PIAA 3A meet), junior Luke Hinegardner (placed seventh at L-L meet, placed 14th at District 3-3A meet, placed 44th at PIAA 3A meet), junior Ryan Wolfe (placed 10th at L-L meet, placed 17th at District 3-3A meet, placed 70th at PIAA 3A meet), junior Ben McElroy (placed 19th at L-L meet, placed 74th at District 3-3A meet, placed 110th at PIAA 3A meet), senior Miles Weber

Key newcomers: freshman Jake Perhonitch, freshman Ben Causak

Coach’s thoughts?: “Our boys have been working hard and working through the adversity associated with COVID-19. I know that they are chomping at the bit to get out there and compete. As long as they get that opportunity, I know that they will take advantage of it.”

Conestoga Valley

Coach: Mark Amway (eighth season)

Last year’s record: 1-9 league (placed seventh at L-L meet, placed 37th at District 3-3A meet)

Key returners: junior Emmanuel Gitonga (placed 18th at L-L meet, placed 66th at District 3-3A meet), junior Dante Velasco (placed 73rd at L-L meet), senior Ethan Logue (placed 74th at L-L meet, placed 232nd at District 3-3A meet), senior Adam Harris (placed 82nd at L-L meet, placed 243rd at District 3-3A meet), senior Jesse Kanagy (placed 105th at L-L meet), sophomore Micah Aldrich (placed 111th at L-L meet, placed 247th at District 3-3A meet), sophomore Tyler Slingluff (148th at L-L meet, placed 277th at District 3-3A meet)

Coach’s thoughts?: “Both the boys and girls teams will be my best overall teams for my time at CV. I don't have that top-five runner in the League, but we do have a nice pack on both teams.  Mich Aldrich and Tyler Slingluff struggled with injuries as freshmen, but have greatly improved over the past year. Juniors Dante Velasco and Emmanuel Gitonga will lead the Buckskins this season along with the aforementioned sophomores. Adam Harris will round out my top-five.”

Elizabethtown

Coach: Mark Gallagher (eighth season)

Last year’s record: 4-6 league (placed 10th at L-L meet, placed 22nd at District 3-3A meet)

Key returners: junior Nathan Johnson (placed 56th at L-L meet, placed 125th at District 3-3A meet), senior Garrick English (placed 68th at L-L meet, placed 123rd at District 3-3A meet), sophomore Shane Moran (placed 118th at L-L meet, placed 238th at District 3-3A meet), senior Nate Barnhart (placed 123rd at L-L meet, placed 230th at District 3-3A meet)

Key newcomers: freshman Nathan Gubbins

Coach’s thoughts?: “Lots of solid runners returning this year, led by seniors Garrick English and Nate Barnhart, along with junior Nathan Johnson. It will be interesting to see who emerges from a large group of sophomore runners, who have done a lot of serious training over the summer. ...All runners have done a terrific job taking the coronavirus outbreak seriously with mask-wearing when they are not actively running or exercising and social distancing. We appreciate every day that we are able to practice and look forward to every opportunity we will have to compete.”

Ephrata

Coach: Mickey Molchany (first season)

Last year’s record: 4-6 league (placed 27th at District 3-3A meet)

Key returners: senior Nathan Kimmel (placed 88th at L-L meet, placed 145th at District 3-3A meet), junior Aaron Hershberger (placed 101st at L-L meet, placed 251st at District 3-3A meet), sophomore Miles Campbell (placed 104th at L-L meet), senior Thomas Patrecca (placed 108th at L-L meet, placed 217th at District 3-3A meet), senior Devon Robertson (placed 126th at L-L meet, placed 241st at District 3-3A meet)

Key newcomers: freshman Simel Santiago, freshman Owen Grube

Coach’s thoughts?: “After losing three of our top four from last year due to graduation, we are in a rebuilding phase. The team has been dedicated through the off-season, and has been working hard day in and day out. If we can continue to improve and remain healthy, we look to be competitive in each meet.”

Hempfield

Coach: Curt Rogers (third season)

Last year’s record: 10-0 league (L-L Section One champions, L-L meet runner-up, placed seventh at District 3-3A meet)

Key returners: senior Evan Eshleman (placed fourth at L-L meet, placed 10th at District 3-3A meet, placed 67th at PIAA 3A meet), sophomore Aidan Hodge (placed 14th at L-L meet, placed 34th at District 3-3A meet), senior David Jackson (placed 16th at L-L meet), junior Dale Winand (placed 17th at L-L meet, placed 89th at District 3-3A meet), sophomore Joseph Fahrney (placed 25 at L-L meet, placed 167th at District 3-3A meet), senior Owen Jackson (placed 46th at L-L meet, placed 186th at District 3-3A meet)

Key newcomers: sophomore Isaiah Hollinger, sophomore Chris Titter, freshman Sam Freedman, junior Ryan French

Coach’s thoughts?: “The core of the 2019 team returns for this season. Positive team cohesiveness and upper-class leadership led to successful preseason training. They practice well and give great effort in the weight room. The desire to improve and carry on the legacy of the Hempfield cross country program drives this group to leave their mark. Team goals include Section One champs, league meet champs, District Three champs, and a team trip to the state meet.”

Lebanon

Coach: Thomas Pearson (sixth season)

Last year’s record: 4-6 league (placed eighth at L-L meet)

Key returners: senior Isaac Showers (senior, placed 26th at L-L meet, placed 42nd at District 3-3A meet), Caleb Hershey (junior, placed 37th at L-L meet, placed 119th at District 3-3A meet), senior Owen Showers (placed 61st at L-L meet, placed 118th at District 3-3A meet), senior Owen Sheetz (placed 96th at L-L meet, placed 177th at District 3-3A meet), junior Carter Troian (placed 110th at L-L meet, placed 193rd at District 3-3A meet), sophomore Samuel Davenport (placed 138th at L-L meet)

Key newcomers: freshman Jalik Hill

Coach’s thoughts: “Five of the top six return from last year. We would like to see an improvement on our place at the League meet and get an individual or two to qualify for districts with the new qualifying standards.”

Manheim Township

Coach: Kevin Stover (third season)

Last year’s record: 6-4 league (placed third at L-L meet, placed 19th at District 3-3A meet)

Key returners: junior Tyler Stevens (placed 12th at L-L meet, placed 47th at District 3-3A meet), sophomore Luke Papadimitrio (placed 49th at L-L meet, placed 129th at District 3-3A meet), senior Braden Schuyler (placed 85th at L-L meet, placed 183rd at District 3-3A meet), junior Cole Schwartz, sophomore Liam Rockwell

Key newcomers: freshman Gunner Geib, freshman Dylan DelVecchio

Coach’s thoughts?: “The top-five looks solid. As far as experience, you can tell by the lineup we’re just going to keep gaining experience meet to meet. That’s going to be something we need to do. We’ll get stronger from that. As the season goes on, if we stay healthy, I think our guys will improve and be contenders for a decent placing in the league meet. We have some strong teams. Cedar Crest is leading the way. Hempfield looks really strong. And McCaskey is going to be tough to beat, too. ...then you have teams like us, if we get stronger, we’ll give some people some battles.”

McCaskey

Coach: Mike Craighead (sixth consecutive season as McCaskey head coach, previously coached at Conestoga Valley for 14 seasons)

Last year’s record: 7-3 league (placed fifth at L-L meet, placed 12th at District 3-3A meet)

Key returners: senior Stephen Schousen (placed 12th at District 3-3A meet, placed 60th at PIAA 3A meet), senior Alex Miller (placed 11th at L-L meet, placed 61st at District 3-3A meet), junior Lachlan McLane (placed 13th at L-L meet, placed 26th at District 3-3A meet, placed 80th at PIAA 3A meet), sophomore Benjamin Blough (placed 38th at L-L meet), junior Theron Plumb (placed 98th at L-L meet, placed 261st at District 3-3A meet), sophomore Jonah Keener (placed 102nd at L-L meet, placed 208th at District 3-3A meet), sophomore Jeremy Dovin (placed 106th at L-L meet)

Coach’s thoughts?: “We have strong front-running. Our top-four are back. The team to beat is Cedar Crest. Stephen Schousen could win the league meet.”

Penn Manor

Coach: Bob Ulmer (23rd season)

Last year’s record: 2-8 league (placed sixth at L-L meet, placed 18th at District 3-3A meet)

Key returners: senior Graham Thomas (placed third at L-L meet, placed second at District 3-3A meet, placed 16th at PIAA 3A meet), senior Lou Lindsley (placed 21st at L-L meet, placed 68th at District 3-3A meet), junior Jeremiah Hetrick (placed 43rd at L-L meet, placed 116th at District 3-3A meet), senior Maxwell Kreiter (placed 83rd at L-L meet, placed 170th at District 3-3A meet), senior Emmitt Richey (placed 84th at L-L meet, placed 219th at District 3-3A meet), sophomore Isaac Braegelman (placed 100th at L-L meet)

Coach’s thoughts?: “We are optimistic regarding our chances to significantly improve our record over last year's performance. We are also looking forward to having strong individual performances in postseason competition.”

Solanco

Coach: Kyle Nardella (first season)

Last year’s record: 0-10 league (placed 33rd at District 3-3A meet)

Key returners: sophomore Anthony Solis (placed 22nd at L-L meet, placed 56th at District 3-3A meet), junior Avery Jacobsen (placed 120th at District 3-3A meet), senior Sean Keller (placed 140th at L-L meet, placed 259th at District 3-3A meet), senior Mason Sinclair (placed 143rd at L-L meet, placed 283rd at District 3-3A meet), junior Joey Hartigan (placed 156th at L-L meet, placed 250th at District 3-3A meet) sophomore Jimmy Hartigan, junior Liam Findley

Key newcomers: freshman Wyatt Tomison, freshman Michael Eisenberger

Coach’s thoughts?: “It will be a year of growth for the boys. We are hoping we can win a couple of meets, but we are expecting a lot of growth from each individual boy. The attitude amongst the boys team is very positive, and they are adjusting well to a different style of training. We are hoping to make a solid run into the postseason with a few individuals, and we have been really impressed with the underclassmen.”

Warwick

Coach: Matt Bomberger (third season)

Last year’s record: 8-2 league (placed fourth at L-L meet, placed 10th at District 3-3A meet)

Key returners: junior JH Mertz (placed 45th at L-L meet, placed 91st at District 3-3A meet), junior Colby Richard (placed 77th at L-L meet, placed 218th at District 3-3A meet), junior Logan Mull (placed 80th at L-L meet)

Key newcomers: freshman Summit Smoker, freshman Rhys Craver,  sophomore Jake Forgione

Coach’s thoughts?: “Our boys team took a hit from losing a strong senior class last year, but are building back nicely. They are strong. And summer training has already put the guys in good shape to make big strides and compete well in the L-L. They are thankful for the opportunity to race this fall and are eager to compete!”


SECTION TWO:

Annville-Cleona

Coach: Caitlin Heller (second season)

Last year’s record: 5-6 league (placed 10th at District 3-2A meet)

Key returners: senior Jack Tshudy (placed 27th at L-L meet, placed 14th at District 3-2A meet, placed 61st at PIAA 2A meet), senior Michael Moran (placed 99th at L-L meet, placed 75th at District 3-2A meet), senior Noah Safford (placed 131st at L-L meet, placed 96th at District 3-2A meet), senior Vincent Krall (placed 132nd at L-L meet, placed 109th at District 3-2A meet), sophomore Andrew Dorsey (placed 135th at District 3-2A meet)

Coach’s thoughts?: “The boys team is looking to continue to work on their success from last season. Seniors Jack Tshudy and Noah Safford put in the miles this summer and are looking forward to seeing their hard work pay off. With graduating a large senior class last season, there is plenty of room for returning runners to step up and help the team to improve in both section and league placements.”

Cocalico

Coach: Ron Derr (31st season)

Last year’s record: 2-9 league

Key returners: junior Colin Knepper (placed 113th at L-L meet, placed 235th at District 3-2A meet), sophomore Austin Krantz (placed 149th at L-L meet), junior Tyler Wenrich (placed 165th at L-L meet)

Key newcomers: Sophomores Tyler Barnett, Kaeden Lehman, and Chase Hartranft

Coach’s thoughts?: “We have really struggled with losing athletes. Three runners who competed for us in last year’s league meet have chosen not to come out for the team this year. Numbers are really down, so staying healthy is an absolute must for this team. We have no seniors, so we are hopeful that although this year will probably be an extremely challenging year from a win-loss perspective, we should have a solid core returning next year."

Columbia

Coach: Charles Leader (12th season)

Last year’s record: 0-11 league

Key returners: senior Tanner Ness (placed 167th at L-L meet)

Key newcomers: James Brady, sophomore, Owen Broome, sophomore, Chase Dishongh, sophomore, Mitchell Dishongh, sophomore, Aiden Miller, sophomore, Tim Powell, sophomore

Coach’s thoughts?: “We finally have the numbers on the boys team. The goal is to be competitive and do well in the postseason.”

Donegal

Coach: Philip Koser (First year back, 17th year overall of coaching high school or junior high cross country at Donegal)

Last year’s record: 9-2 league (placed seventh at District 3-2A meet)

Key returners: senior Brock Overlander (placed 33rd at L-L meet, placed 12th at District 3-2A meet, placed 65th at PIAA 2A meet), junior Hunter Gehman (placed 60th at L-L meet, placed 39th at District 3-2A meet), senior Logan Fry (placed 63rd at L-L meet, placed 54th at District 3-2A meet), junior Sam Rothstein (placed 75th at L-L meet, placed 64th at District 3-2A meet), senior Ethan Steck (placed 86th at L-L meet, placed 70th at District 3-2A meet), senior Andrew Allen (placed 127th at L-L meet, placed 132nd at District 3-2A meet), sophomore Brandon Marcelo (placed 137th at L-L meet, placed 151st at District 3-2A meet)

Key newcomers: freshman Noah Hinkel, sophomore John Spackman, sophomore Zach Karpel, sophomore Dylan Lenhart

Coach’s thoughts?: “Having the entire varsity squad back from last year provides us with experience that we will need for the postseason this year. Our two biggest strengths are senior leadership and team camaraderie. The boys have put in a lot of work to prepare for the season, and they are fit and ready to race. One goal was to win the regular season Section Two by going undefeated, and the main goal as a team was to place top-three at the District Three championships and make states, but now that only the District Three team champ makes it to states, the state meet goal becomes more challenging. The big questions are: Can our top-five runners each improve at least 30-40 seconds over their best times from last year? And who will our No. 5 runner be each race?  We are considerably deep this year, and our Nos. 5-8 runners could be different every meet.”

Elco

Coach: Chuck Gerberich (12th season)

Last year’s record: 7-4 league (placed ninth at District 3-2A meet)

Key returners: sophomore Landen Brubaker (placed 104th at L-L meet, placed 51st at District 3-2A meet), sophomore Nathan Sanchez (placed 107th at L-L meet, placed 102nd at District 3-2A meet), junior Jason Whelan (placed 129th at L-L meet, placed 66th at District 3-2A meet)

Key newcomers: senior Trenton Brubaker returns after running as a sophomore and playing football as a junior

Coach’s thoughts?: “Team strength is the top-four boys are solid. However, at this point we only have six runners total. So getting a fifth runner to help is the issue. So the area of improvement is to get more runners out for the team. The team goals are to find a fifth runner so the team is a top-two Class 2A team at league meet in order to advance to the District 3-2A meet. The team motto is work hard and they are very competitive. The boys need to run well to be happy.”

Garden Spot

Coach: Traci Tempone (fourth season)

Last year’s record: 4-6 league (placed 39th at District 3-2A meet)

Key returners: sophomore Zane Kauffman (placed 64th at L-L meet, placed 144th at District 3-2A meet), senior Dakota Cox (placed 118th at L-L meet, placed 221st at District 3-2A meet), junior Finn Wenrich (placed 124th at L-L meet, placed 244th at District 3-2A meet), sophomore Alan Krock (placed 147th at L-L meet, placed 285th at District 3-2A meet)

Key newcomers: senior Alex McFalls, senior Daniel Vargas, junior Josiah Martin, junior Will Culbert, sophomore Evan Graham, freshman Thomas Watt

Coach’s thoughts?: “They are a hard-working group that I’m excited to see compete and continue to improve together this season.”

Lampeter-Strasburg

Coach: Mari Cunningham (sixth season)

Last year’s record: 11-0 league (L-L Section Two champion, placed 30th at District 3-2A meet)

Key returners: junior Luka Vranich (placed 47th at L-L meet, placed 113th at District 3-2A meet), junior Adrian Elia (placed 72nd at L-L meet), sophomore Parker Stoner (placed 79th at L-L meet, placed 163rd at District 3-2A meet), senior Nathan Eberly (placed 81st at L-L meet, placed 157th at District 3-2A meet), junior David Pritchard (placed 91st at L-L meet, placed 168th at District 3-2A meet)

Key newcomers: freshman Collin Whitaker, freshman Luke Smith

Coach’s thoughts?: “Quite a few runners worked hard over the summer, coming into preseason ready to complete challenging workouts. The team is excited to compete.  Theme for the season is OVERCOME.”

Lancaster Catholic

Coach: Tom Simpson (11th consecutive season - previously coached Lancaster Catholic from 1978-1984)

Last year’s record: 8-3 league (placed 12th at District 3-2A meet)

Key returners: junior Mason Moore (placed 57th at L-L meet, placed 31st at District 3-2A meet), senior Miles Durrett (placed 109th at L-L meet, placed 124th at District 3-2A meet), senior Gabe Knafelc (placed 119th at L-L meet, placed 90th at District 3-2A meet), junior Cooper Linkey (placed 133rd at L-L meet, placed 155th at District 3-2A meet), senior Daniel Myers (placed 41st at L-L meet, placed 24th at District 3-2A meet, placed 176th at PIAA 2A meet)

Key newcomers: Brendan McNamara (senior)

Coach’s thoughts?: “The boys had an excellent summer of training, with several running over 300 miles. There is good depth 1-7, though Daniel Myers is clearly our No. 1 runner. Our team motto is a Tom Petty tune, "Runnin' Down a Dream,” and our dream/goal is to qualify for districts as one of two teams from the L-L League.The key to accomplishing that goal will be the leadership and performance of our seniors.”

Lancaster Mennonite

Coach: Lee Thurber (second season)

Last year’s record: 1-10 league (placed 31st at District 3-2A meet)

Key returners: junior Shane Harmer (placed 128th at L-L meet, placed 142nd at District 3-2A meet), sophomore Ethan Kanagy (placed 155th at L-L meet, placed 181st at District 3-2A meet), sophomore Caleb Metzler (placed 157th at L-L meet), junior Aiden Grambau (placed 162nd at L-L meet, placed 204th at District 3-2A meet)

Key newcomers: sophomore Robert Ross, freshman Jacob Ripperger, freshman Nathan Bowman, freshman Remy Mackay

Coach’s thoughts?: “At first glance, last season may not look successful but I am very pleased with the effort and individual performances of the runners. Each of the runners last year ran personal bests and grew stronger and faster by season's end. We hope to continue to develop this year and work towards being more competitive in the league.”

Manheim Central

Coach: Ryan Kennedy (fifth season)

Last year’s record: 10-1 league (L-L Section Two runner-up)

Key returners: junior Michael Greenwald (placed 52nd at L-L meet, placed 131st at District 3-2A meet), junior Bailey Garman (placed 87th at L-L meet, placed 182 at District 3-2A meet), senior Brady Knier (placed 95th at L-L meet, placed 226th at District 3-2A meet), junior Zeke Ruffner (placed 121st at L-L meet, placed 185th at District 3-2A meet), senior Zachary Witmer (placed 287th at District 3-2A meet)

Key newcomers: senior Nick Bair

Coach’s thoughts?: “Our goal is to be better today than we were yesterday.  We have great senior leadership in Brady Knier who is also our top runner right now. The boys are a tight-knit group. I’m excited to see what they can accomplish this season.”

Northern Lebanon

Coach: Tricia Schafebook

Last year’s record: 6-5 league (placed ninth at L-L meet)

Key returners: junior Damion Fiore (placed 55th at L-L meet, placed 71st at District 3-2A meet), senior Mathew Tinto (placed 65th at L-L meet, placed 148th at District 3-2A meet), junior Ayden Krall (placed 70th at L-L meet, placed 57th at District 3-2A meet), junior Tyler Meyer (placed 112th at L-L meet, placed 105th at District 3-2A meet), junior Peyton Wolfe (placed 122nd at L-L meet, placed 111th at District 3-2A meet), senior Matthew Getz (placed 135th at L-L meet), junior Samuel Hillegas (placed 136th at L-L meet, placed 130th at District 3-2A meet)

Key newcomers: Kenny Battistelli, Aidan Bertrand, Ben Brassart, Carter Cheslock, William Hillegas, Skylar McGinity

Coach’s thoughts?: “We have been working hard in the pre-season and are hoping that our efforts pay off.  We are setting our sights on making it to postseason competition as a team.”

Octorara

Coach: David Thaler (first season)

Last year’s record: 3-8 league (placed 26th at District 3-2A meet)

Key returners: sophomore Lucas Thaler (placed 50th at L-L meet, placed 48th at District 3-2A meet), junior Sam Bishop (placed 92nd at L-L meet, placed 153rd at District 3-2A meet), senior Parry Bentley (placed 142nd at L-L meet, placed 156th at District 3-2A meet), sophomore Don Kline (placed 144th at L-L meet, placed 163rd at District 3-2A meet), junior Jaden Diantonio (placed 153rd at L-L meet, placed 171st at District 3-2A meet), sophomore Connor Nuckols (placed 158th at L-L meet), sophomore David Jones (placed 166th at L-L meet, placed 201st at District 3-2A meet)

Key newcomers: freshman Kai Johnson, junior Connor Jeffries (ran in junior high, played soccer last two years)

Author’s note: This is Thaler’s first time coaching a high school program at any level. However, he is a 2001 Millersville University alumna who ran cross country and track for the Marauders.

Coach’s thoughts?: “So most of my main guys. ..we’re a young team. Sophomores mainly and a junior will make up my top-seven guys. Pretty much most of those guys on the list, the top-two will be my top guys, Lucas and Sam. I have a freshman and a new junior who will hopefully make an impact on my top-seven. It’s a young team. We’re looking to develop those young guys. And we’re looking to improve this year on our league record.” “I’ve never coached running before. But I’ve always had a love for the sport. This opportunity opened up this year. ...I have a son on the team. When the position opened up, I jumped at it. ...I’ve been reading a lot, studying up on different things. I have a background in training as a collegiate athlete for four years at Millersville. And I’ve coached my kids in youth sports over the years, and interacted with them in Boy Scouts. ...I feel like my interaction with youth through the years has helped me deal with figuring out how to handle different personalities and ability levels of these kids. I’m trying to grow this program.”

Pequea Valley

Coach: Keith Andrew (first season at Pequea Valley, previously coached Coatesville for 33 seasons)

Key newcomers: senior Josh Jarvis, senior Dustin Huber, senior Zach Donlen

Author’s note: As a new cross country program, Pequea Valley is on a probationary period with the L-L League in its first two years of existence. As a result, Pequea Valley will run a league schedule, but those meets will not count towards its win-loss record. However, it’s non-league meets will count.

Coach’s thoughts?: “Two of my boys runners are two-sport athletes. Dustin Huber is a football player and Josh Jarvis is a soccer player. I’m not going to have them for every meet but my expectations are to see how competitive they are before I have an idea if all the training we’re doing is going in the right direction and getting them to a higher level.” … “The athletes I have, they have some of the best work ethics. I’ll see how far I can take them. As they long continue to work hard, everything is positive and headed in the right direction. For me and for them it’s just a learning experience.”